Re: Love & Relationships

[Spock]

$100 seems like low maintenance to me.

I am used to seeing higher maintenance cost: 2 orders of magnitude or more.

I'd say 3 figure maintenance is nothing to complain about.

[Lady]

Qui-Gon ..... I think this may be a cultural thing. In the US the legal system has caused an antagonistic relationship between men and women. Men and women have become gold diggers, marrying shortly to get what $ they can. It's a very sad situation. Truthy is 19 and spent almost $400 on a girl he just started seeing. That's unheard of. I never had a man spend more than $50 on me, and I'm 47.

Please tell me what the rest of the world is like. I love finding out the cultural differences.

[Dice]

You can only BUY those who match your "vibration" and therefore
you get what you deserve.

I guess not all people are into buying each other though...

[Dice]

In ancient times the successful hunter was able to feed the offspring

if their was somebody keeping the wood-fire going

We also don't know if woman only did the gathering and the man only the hunting, but I agree that it is more likely that men hunted bears and women berries...

Though "business" only came into existence when tribes exchanged
different goddies...

I don't want to white-wash them at all, but their mindset was less materialistic, even though they lived in a way more "mat-realistic environment"....

[Spock]

First, i must acknowledge the women who are not materialistic, not to brush all women with a broad stroke.

I don't think it's so much a cultural thing as it is individual difference in outlook/demeanor.
I've seen wholesome women in every culture.
Also the kinds we are talking about...

We call these women high maintenance - I see it in my own relatives.
It seems that as the income rises, greater the demands from these women.
Some of the numbers are very high, even the likes of a blackmail.

I generally avoid these kinds women as they seem to have no (other?) virtues.
If they had any virtues, they would not be materialistic, does that make any sense?

[Lady]

If they had any virtues, they would not be materialistic, does that make any sense?

.......Totally. All I ever wanted was basic necessities.

I knew a blue collar guy who commited suicide because he had two ex-wives to support. My integrity tells me I can never harm someone else. I've seen the legal system up close and how men and women try to ruin each other.

My integrity issue now is that I know about the terrible shit that's going on in the world, and I don't feel I'm doing enough about it. I helped someone start a new forum today, someone who has actually DONE something pro-active. I know if we keep plugging away, eventually someone is going to start something that is going to gain momentum, and all these other forums are going to want in on it. Once that ball starts rolling, there will be huge momentum.

What do non-Americans think? Do you think it's up to us Americans to stop our government?

[Lady]

Ciggy, so what you're saying is the whole world is being played. No doubt.

I hate this feeling of being powerless to stop it. It's like I got woke up, only to find there is nothing I can do about it. What's the point of waking people up if they're only going to be as frustrated as I am about the whole god damn situation?

I need help accepting this. Goddess, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. This is hard for me, no doubt for others as well. If there is a way I can help others through these feelings, I suppose that would be a way of helping. First I gotta get myself through this dilemma.

Peace, love & understanding

[Spock]

The way i see it - we need to build communities.

These are communities of like-minded people may it be around agriculture, medicine, neighborhoods, etc.
We need to in a tribe of sorts to support one another.

A forum is a starting point.

What kinds of communities can we build? any new ideas?

[feish]

As for vaccinations, I haven't had any in over a decade.

Recently there was an alrmist article in my local news paper about tetinus. They said that you can get it from soil. I work at a nursery, so everyone is saying I should get a shot.

What kind of options do I have here? Is a tetinus booster a bad shot to get? I don't think the doctor would appreciate any nosy questions.

[Dice]

The wealth would increase if it would be shared.

With wealth I mean all things material and spiritual.

The melting of the capitalist and socialist mindset

is inevitable, yet we are not ready to except

responsibility instead of apointing führer despots

who start fearing the masses after a short while

and tend to turn oppressive, setting up rigid systems

of control and end most things in a destructive way.

A lived equality without forcing same-ness or mental

control onto each other, would let the world and all

living things in it prosper. This is a evolutional step.

One important part plays the balancing of genders.

In the end we can only be really individual if we let

everyone have their dignity. Leaps appear from time

to time, from cycle to cycle, yet it must also be

understood that not all souls ripen at the same time

or in the same manner.


The best start is to start with oneself and be a good

example to those who will adapt to it. No pride needs

to be taken in it if it is supposed to be effective for all.

Uri

[Spock]

Waco turned into a dead one.

Yep, i don't think a religious cult or an armed compound would be a good model of a community.

You would be asking for it - death that is...

[Spock]

The wealth would increase if it would be shared. With wealth I mean all things material and spiritual. The melting of the capitalist and socialist mindset is inevitable...

Isn't EU just another name for USSR?

[Dice]

I wrote capitalist and socialist mindset but forgot to emphazise on

Mindset. I try to avoid political terms but are in need for examples.

I don't think that any current political system is a healthy example

and that all need to evolve (or crumble) by careful redirection

through people's choice who are actually in charge of any kind of

systems since it is them all building them. I would think less politics

and more local responsible self-governing in a range to 50.000

people would resemble a healthy tribe whereas people should be able

to exchange residency with each other if they please to. Most of the

needed necessities should be locally produced and only such items

imported that express a certain luxory which should also be equally

distributed. Every human and nature would truly profit in the long run.

Ofcourse, this would require a more present peaceful mind if people

would like to return to a more natural state of being. Maybe it will

start in some places and other places will join, maybe some places will

try other experiments and so on, but I think we need to make a leap.

Uri

[Guest]

feish,
I thought that you always got a tetanus shot if you went to the doctors anyway, especially if you cut yourself. The shot will wear off if they just give you one anyway. Just more money for them, continuously giving everyone shots, OH BOY! Besides, if you do get an infection, you can stop it, that is what the tet shot is for, right when you get the infection. It does the job just fine, when you actually have an infection, so what the hell would they be giving you all these shots for!!!
Sounds like another fear tactic!

It's a shame, because I wanted to go into the medical field before, but they give you too many shots and I refuse to do that. Imagine getting a hep C shot and then actually getting the disease 20-30 years from now, because it stays dormant for a long time in your body and it mutates. Usually vaccinations are what cause you to get the disease. I got the mumps shot when I was little and got the mumps. Polio was widespread in the 50's because that is when they started giving the polio vaccination, and guess what? People got polio.
Always put your health first.

[Spock]

It's a shame, because I wanted to go into the medical field before, but they give you too many shots and I refuse to do that.

Ocelotl, i wanted the same. Years ago, i actually went to a medical school in the east coast of USA.

Then i quit.

I was told i was throwing away a career of prestige, money, etc. etc. of being a doctor.
Fuck it, fuck the wasted efforts, fuck the benefits, i fucking quit! i told them.

In the first day of that medical school, a guy in a long white robe came in said "we are going to make doctors out of you" (just like that movie Patch Adams with Robin Williams). i am not kidding. Jesus Christ! Then the rest is history and it's a long story in my life. I knew then what i (and the rest of us) know now about our modern medical system. My disillusion with the system (esp. Amerika) started there. Only that it got worse...

[Spock]

Ha ha ha.,

That's funny. Well not so funny, you DO have a point there.

How are you doing, Ciggy?

[Lady]

Night-night, Cig.

The way i see it - we need to build communities. These are communities of like-minded people may it be around agriculture, medicine, neighborhoods, etc. We need to in a tribe of sorts to support one another. A forum is a starting point. What kinds of communities can we build? any new ideas?

Y'all remember Melinda or Mithka? She's moving to Prescott Arizona to build a community. She worked on an organic farm, and this is her main goal. She asked for the Newcastle link, so we should be hearing from her soon.

[Spock]

Sun hardly knows at this stage what
she is doing with regard to getting help through Al-anon. She believed
she was merely going to Al-Anon meetings for Andrew. There was one
pivotal and bitter argument between us, about her also needing to work
through the 12 steps----leaving her angry and completely mystified and
refusing to call the Korean contacts that she collected at the two
meetings she had attended. Until, Sunday night's regular meeting she
cross examined some of the people she has been attracted to, one in
particular, Soon Hee, the head of Al-Anon-Korea---"He thinks I have to
do the 12 steps too! I am not the one who is alcoholic, he is the
alcoholic; is this true?!" Sun asked one or two.

The answer was couched very wisel by
Sun's experienced Korean compatriots, fellow sufferers of themselves
and fellow victims of addicts----they said, one by one in affirmation,
"Even normal people should do the steps, because, even normal people
will feel better if they do the steps, See Sun----your husband is an
alcoholic and he is working the steps to recover, and if you work the
steps together, you will recover together."

She said that she had been very angry with me when
I suggested it, they laughed in that way that people do when they
relate and have been there---"I have been angry with him many times
when I just didn't understand him..." and there was laughter as they
related. Sun is seeing these people, her own age, her own race of
women, who are accomplished professors in university, crying in the
meetings as they talk about whatever honestly is hurting them, and not
always about the drunk they know and love. "This is very strange
group." She said with a smile earlier on.

What more is this working of the 12 steps but an
exercise in what Socrates called THE EXAMINED LIFE which when left
unheeded or un-worked, is not worth living?What more is this recovery
model than a conscious contacting of the god of our understanding, the
source of love and power in the universe that, if we avail ourselves
of, we might become participants in what, you Kris, long ago referred
to as that great cycle of "what goes around, comes around, reaping what
we have sown, giving and thereby receiving so much. What we put out
there comes back to us..." you said, over Grand Marnier and a
quality cigar.

Now, I face my own perhaps false guilt complex,
because although I see hope for the first time, I am living
separately on the oppisite side of Namsan mountain, close by in
Haebongcheon, seeing other women and then often---staying sometimes
beside my lovely baby daughter and Sun over night on their
bed---resisting having sex and trying to stay clear of affection and "I
love you's"----but, sometimes telling her when it bubbles up in me, "I do love you"
and sometimes hugging her---but, so far, refraining from sex, for the
majority of the time----and sometimes expressing to Sun that maybe there is hope,
Kris, and I feel guilty for wanting and pursuing the company of other
girls---truly loving my own apartment and solitude and the art that
issues out of me in the form of poetry, in the uncluttered domestic
life that I treasure and need.

What is it in your life, that
causes this same dilemma? Share it or keep it to yourself, at your own
bidding---thanks as always. And thanks for your call to Glenn and
Debbie and your memorial for Sadie--whom the universe has taken early,
on that journey we shall all take into the unknown void of the abolute
that is pure unconditional love.

Would love to hear your thoughts on all of this.

Now that Sun has ordered essential books from
Al-Anon and will read and attend the meetings and talk to people who
have travelled down the road further to healing---will the real Sun,
the fully human Sun emerge, if she seeks her own transparency, as I seek mine, sir?
We will see.

[Spock]

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